Engine cutting out

[UltimateGreen]

Hi!

Just wanted to get an answer on this one, I thought someone on here must know?

Out of no where I had the car ticking over for a short period of time outside my house whilst I opened the gates and I went back to get in and the engine was off.. I thought it was a friend pranking me but the key was in the 'ON' position. So I started it up again and it cut off right in front of me... Anyway, I started it back up and gave it the beans and it stopped doing it.


Since then it has become more common, now whilst im driving. The car tries to cut out whilst I decelerate when drives and kicks when I try and add more pedal.


Any thoughts on this one? I was thinking it was a fuel starvation? But how common is that? Faulty fuel pump maybe?

My main diagnosis was that the spark plugs may of had it? Anyone had this problem at all?


If anyone knows what this could be then I would be grateful of your thoughts

Cheers.

 

[LC]

Think a few people have had to replace their fuel pumps, plugged in a code reader by any chance?

When was the car last serviced?

 

[oscar]

the worst thing you can do here is guess, and the second worst thing you can do is use an OBD2 code reader on a renault. what you need is clip diagnostics and someone who really knows their way around a renault. you can have a local garage perform a fuel pressure check at various throttle positions, as well as do some live sensor readings on the throttle potentiometer to painstakingly rule things out wheras clip will run a bus-loop diagnostic and will let you know what the problem is exactly which will save you money in the long run trying to rely on OBD2 codes which haven't got much relevance to a modern renault with it's own special codes!

don't bother resistance checking coil packs etc that won't get you anywhere, the resistance might be in spec and 1 small winding of copper wire might be broken out of the 600 and may not be noticed until placed under full load where it may cut out but i gurantee you it's a fuelling problem. concentrate on the fuel pump, get to a renault specialist if possible and don't waste money throwing random parts at it .. you'll only ever spend more cash doing it that way!

 

[UltimateGreen]

Hmm.. I was hoping that someone would say... Oh! That's just your spark plugs!

Last time it was serviced was a year ago/10k miles.


I drove home from work the other week (150 miles) and it did it a couple of times but nothing major... My thinking if it was like a big issue it would just cut out all together.

Its due a service soon anyway but my worry is that Renault wont have a clue? :?

 

[LC]

Hmm.. I was hoping that someone would say... Oh! That's just your spark plugs!

Last time it was serviced was a year ago/10k miles.


I drove home from work the other week (150 miles) and it did it a couple of times but nothing major... My thinking if it was like a big issue it would just cut out all together.

Its due a service soon anyway but my worry is that Renault wont have a clue? :?

It's nearly impossible to diagnose something on the internet especially when there's so many different things to check I don't thing a bad spark would do cut the engine?

 

[oscar]

haha renault definitely will have a clue there seems to be a few myths spread about like wildfire regarding the structure of renault dealerships work force for things like this you are in the hands of an RTE (like me) except they'll have much more experience than me! they do complicated diagnostics, engine work etc.

it's the apprentices who do servicing and general skivvy work brake discs pads blahh blahhhh

 

[flowerpowerdave]

Hmm.. I was hoping that someone would say... Oh! That's just your spark plugs!

Last time it was serviced was a year ago/10k miles.


I drove home from work the other week (150 miles) and it did it a couple of times but nothing major... My thinking if it was like a big issue it would just cut out all together.

Its due a service soon anyway but my worry is that Renault wont have a clue? :?

this happened to my car, called the AA, they diagnosed the fuel pump after 35 mins testing, got a replacement from Halfords - £96, cheapest anwhere.

 

[UltimateGreen]

Cheers for your replies, I'm just going to book it in for it's service and mention the problem to them and get them to sort it.

 

[UltimateGreen]

Picked up my car today from Renault.

Apparently they diagnosed the issue to be a dirty throttle body, the butterfly valve was a bit dirty.

Well having driven it back home it drives a little better without the lumpy-ness which was there before
but as soon as I parked up at home... what a shock, cut out straight away on it's own!

It seems to idle FAR too low.. idle's at like 600RPM? I've never known a car to be that low?

I'm pretty peeved to be honest, it's not like the total bill was cheap either for a code read and an hours labour for the problem still to be there!

I have the car booked back in on Friday, yet again having to pay a daily rate for the 'courtesy car' and probably going shell out on more money on more labour hours!

 

[oscar]

TUNING AND EMISSIONS
Ignition Timing - Basic BTDC Engine / RPM : Not Adjustable
Ignition Advance Checks Engine / RPM : ECM Controlled
Idle Speed RPM : 800+50 Not Adjustable

definitely not normal. sounds like you have a vacuum leak, what i'd do is spray some brake cleaner around vacuum hoses leading to the inlet manifold / throttle body. do the revs pick up? if so, you'll need to replace vacuum hose which costs pennies. what you can also do is run the car, and remove the vacuum hose to the inlet manifold (does it make any difference in revs? still sitting at 600 rpm?)

also, cautiously spray some brake cleaner around the gasket mating area on the inlet manifold. does the manifold suck in the brake cleaner and increase the revs? this is a little bit of a barbaric way to test for a inlet manifold leaking gasket.

hope this helps

 

[UltimateGreen]

Yea I will try that mate, someone else told me it could be that.

It's weird, when I turn on the aircon the revs pick up to what it should be (800rpm) but when the aircon is switched off it goes back down to 600.

 

[oscar]

aye, there is a valve which increases idle to compensate for the added engine load when air con is on (won't go into too much detail because i'd just end up loosing you, as well as myself haha). i'm pretty certain it's a loss of vacuum due to a split or leaking hose. get yourself some vacuum hoses for cheap and then replace them yourself before you stick it back in the garage, cure the problem yourself before you loose out on even more cash man!

 

[UltimateGreen]

Do you know if there are any hoses that are connected to the inlet plenum hiding around the back?

 

[oscar]

theres one on the IIAC valve on the throttle body, and there should be one (from memory) running on the back of the inlet manifold although it's been a while since i've worked on this area of the K4M. rule of thumb, if it's a small narrow hose then it's going to be vacuum remove a few of them with the engine running and see if it makes any difference with a friend in the drivers seat ready to catch the revs with the accelerator before it stalls. whatever one doesn't make a difference will no doubt be the one that is suspect


also still go down the brake cleaner method, better to try this out yourself before you spend any cash because a vacuum hose will cost you 2 pound wheras a trip back to the garage won''t! drive upto glasgow and we'll sort this out tomorrow lol, if only

 

[singlespeed]

Possible areas to check for leaks-
Inlet temp sensor, grey sensor on the front of the upper manifold.
MAP sensor, when facing engine, ontop of the left end of the plenum chamber.
Vacuum hose for fuel vapour solenoid valve. Behind and below the MAP sensor Iinto the back of the plenum.
Brake vacuum hose. Into the back of the plenum, near the throttle body.
Throttle body to upper inet manifold.
Upper to lower manifold joint.
Lower manifold to head joint
Injectors into lower manifold.

 

[singlespeed]

post28761.html
Pics here may help

 

[UltimateGreen]

Thanks mate, yeah I looked at that post the other night.. was useful, although pointed out to me that most the things I need to check are tucked right at the back of the engine

 

[UltimateGreen]

I've been looking at the throttle bodies they do for this car.. I take it you need new ecu, injectors etc..?

 

[UltimateGreen]

Just for future reference for people, it would seem as though all the trouble was a dirty throttle body butterfly valve. They cleaned it and now it doesn't cut out any more.

My suspicions still lye with the fact that it idles at something like 6-7k rpm.. which personally I believe to be too low but the geniuses at Renault seem to think the car is A1.. So.. ? Just live with it I guess.


**So if your car does want to cut out, don't go to Renault... just clean ya throttle body!** :lol:

 

[oscar]

Just for future reference for people, it would seem as though all the trouble was a dirty throttle body butterfly valve. They cleaned it and now it doesn't cut out any more.

My suspicions still lye with the fact that it idles at something like 6-7k rpm.. which personally I believe to be too low but the geniuses at Renault seem to think the car is A1.. So.. ? Just live with it I guess.


**So if your car does want to cut out, don't go to Renault... just clean ya throttle body!** :lol:

good to see we were in the right area with the vacuum / throttle body / manifold area. also if my car was to idle at vtec territory of 7k i think i'd have to write renault a letter beggining with the following

dear renault,

thank's for the v-tec. my car used to idle at 800 rpm but now it idles at 7-8k.
much love,
me.


hahaha good to see your problems solved. see it wasn't broke, just dirty! dirty cars are driven cars