cam cover leak leading to cambelt change questions

[glover]

hi,
recently bought a twingo 133 from a Renault dealership. I took it back as the cam cover was leaking slightly. They were quite good about it (so far) and said they will order up the parts to sort the leak out, they also said this was a timing belt off job so they would also be fitting a new belt at the same time.

What im wandering is this, (I use to work in the motor trade so I know how these things tend to work)
They will only replace the bare minimum of parts to do the leak, so cambelt tensioner and water pump im not expecting to be replaced. Is there anything else ive missed? just that id rather pay a bit extra and get all the parts done that would normally be done on a cambelt kit change, if this makes sense

obviously ill give them a ring and speak about it, just wanted to get some background info
cheers

 

[LC]

https://www.k-tecracing.com/service_grid.asp?appid=18&model=Petrol%20models

 

[LC]

As above

 

[glover]

cheers for that, is there a recommended replacement interval from Renault for the aux belt and tensioners?
also, why do the camshaft end seals have to be replaced? are the camshafts removed when doing the belt or something? just not used to that.
thanks, chris

 

[LC]

No idea but someone will be along soon to tell you I imagine it's the same as the cambelt for the aux and tensioners on most cars.

I don't even know what a camshaft is tbf

 

[oscar]

cheers for that, is there a recommended replacement interval from Renault for the aux belt and tensioners?
also, why do the camshaft end seals have to be replaced? are the camshafts removed when doing the belt or something? just not used to that.
thanks, chris

not sure where the leak was coming from exactly, but the usual suspect is from a rocker cover gasket. remember oil under pressure takes the path of least resistance, this could be however like you mentioned the camshaft end seals in which case the camshafts will need to be removed alongside the timing belt to get the camshaft themselves off of the cylinder head so that the end seals may be replaced. they are just little plastic oil seals similar to the rubber lip / seal you'd usually see on an oil filter etc.

service requirements for the 133 timing belt are 60,000 or 6 years whichever comes first (something in my head is saying it went upto 70,000 miles recently) but regardless, let's just stick with 60/6 years right now. with the k4m engine, it is essential to change the water pump as the k4m pumps are notoriously .... **** to keep it fair. if you think about, if you were just to change dephaser & timing belt and leave the waterpump on you'd be expecting that waterpump with it's notorious failure rate to be soldiering on for anothe 60,000 miles or 6 years. a renault dealership will charge you around 600-700 for this all inclusive of waterpump etc. how old is your twingo also? is it under warranty?

 

[glover]

hi, I was just asking about camshaft end seals after looking at the link that LC posted. alongside cambelt changes etc it listed camshaft end seals, as if it was normal to replace them, just thought it was a bit odd? so I asked why, but the leak on my twingo is coming from the cam cover gasket.
My twingo is stil under the used sales warranty, not long bought it.
im not expecting the water pump to be done when they go about the cam cover gasket but ill ring them at somepoint and check what they will be fitting

 

[singlespeed]

cheers for that, is there a recommended replacement interval from Renault for the aux belt and tensioners?
also, why do the camshaft end seals have to be replaced? are the camshafts removed when doing the belt or something? just not used to that.
thanks, chris

The end seals will need butchering to remove them... They MUST be removed to fit the horseshoe shaped camshaft timing tool into the slots in the non-driven end so the lobes on the inlet and exhaust cams will be opening valves at the correct time in relation to each other.

At the driven end, the pulleys need slackening off, which means undoing the bolts for both inlet dephaser pulley and exhaust cam pulley, as well as the crankshaft pulley... Simply undoing the bolts on the cam pulleys whilst relying on the horseshoe to keep them from rotating will distort the slots in the ends of the cams and damage the allignment tool. The pulleys can be locked with another tool, which seems to be overlooked but saves damage when undoing/tightening the can pulleys.

The cams need to be in time with the pistons, otherwise valve/piston contact could occur. so there's a pin which goes through the crank case (block) and locates against the crank shaft, to get the crank/pistons in the setting position and the cams are set to the slots so the timing will be spot on.

With all three pulleys loose, the belt and pulleys can be rotated to even out the tension whilst the tensioner is set. Crank set, cams set, belt tension set, the pulleys can be tightened.

This is mainly the 2.0 F4R, but the basics of floating pulleys are the same. Dan@519 shows a couple of pictures of the allignment/setting tool and the pulley locking tool
https://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?510521-cambelt-problems-(local-garages)

Now, back to the leak... The rocker/cam cover doesnt have a gasket, it is a liquid sealant arround the edges and seals on the pulley ends of the camshafts to keep the oil in. The cam cover also acts as the top half of the cam bearings, so removing the cam cover to reseal it will need the belt tension releasing, disturbing the cams timing.

A few degrees out may not be crunch critical, but it could give a lumpy idle or cost several horse power down.

 

[glover]

wow blimey it realy must be a nightmare doing a cambelt change on an rs lol.
im more used to fords and Vauxhalls and a cam cover on one of those would be a simple diy job on a sunday afternoon, cant believe whats involved with it on the rs engine

 

[singlespeed]

wow blimey it realy must be a nightmare doing a cambelt change on an rs lol.
im more used to fords and Vauxhalls and a cam cover on one of those would be a simple diy job on a sunday afternoon, cant believe whats involved with it on the rs engine

But, when it done correctly, its going to be spot on as (well, as intended).

Other marques without floating pulleys would need vernier pulleys or a (highly likely) slight compromise with the cam positions to get the toothed cambelt on the pulleys.

 

[user 980]

Mine needs resealing next time it has the belts done. Not urgent but it does need doing.

 

[alexs123]

is it engine out to do the timing belt on the 133s like the clios? or can you just about do it with leaving the engine in?

 

[oscar]

no, you can do it easily enough with the engine in place although it is tight. wheel arch off, remove rear engine mount to give yourself some wiggle room. engine brace across the top to hold it in position and move it around with a jack to get the best position to work on but not required. it can be done with just removing the wheel arch and a bit of patience.

the service manual would tell you different though, hence why renault can charge you so much in labour. we got taught the quick ways to do every job, there are 3 different ways to do each job in terms of ''book time'' and the customer always gets charged for the most expensive method even though at renault we always done the quickest method. that's why i always tell folk to avoid dealerships!