Request for a sticky? Engine specs, the good and the bad

[1975DCS]

I found it very hard to find information on these little k4m engines. Like does it have a forged crank? Decent con-rods? Forged pistons? Etc, etc.
Last week I talked to a Rallycross driver, that drives a Renault Clio Super 1600 and he told me the block itself is a more fragile than the 2.0 Sport engines he used in Productions Class...
He had his engine previously tuned by a respected "allround" tuner, with an expensive list of modifications like forged components and throttle bodies, but the engine still kept breaking.
Now he has the real deal, a Sodemo engine! But this ain't cheap... This engine comes also with some strengthening plates to stiffen the block, so maybe this will be needed for the forced induction we will probably see from tuners...

Anyway it is difficult to find any information for just the standard engine! Anyone also know the difference with the Twingo R2 engine? This has 160 bhp, sounds nice!

 

[Karl]

From RUK

Here are the changes for the R2 engine over the standard 133 unit

Twingo Renaultsport R2 features the normally-aspirated 1,598cc 16-valve K4M RS engine developed by Renault Sport Technologies, ensuring the car is effective, reliable and fun-to-drive. The main changes concern the pistons, camshaft, flywheel, exhaust system and the addition of a specific air box. This special preparation gives the engine an extra 27hp compared with the production model, reaching 160hp (118kW) of power at 7,250rpm. Maximum torque (160Nm) is reached at 5,500rpm.

A specific motorsport ECU manages engine (power supply and ignition) and gearbox operations. It operates in conjunction with a special electrical wiring loom and may be combined with an optional data logging. Twingo Renaultsport R2’s engine has been designed to cover 2,500 kilometres of special stages between each service.

The five-speed sequential gearbox comes with a ZF limited slip differential. Gearshift is managed via a lever positioned adjacent to the steering wheel, which is combined with an engine cut-out switch. This means the driver can use full-throttle flat shifts while changing up through the gears. The clutch is a hydraulically-controlled single disc. Like the gearbox, it can be used for both gravel and tarmac rallying. Three final drive settings are available to suit the specific characteristics of each event.

Also, bear in mind that the R2 kit is 28,000 euros. Most of that cost is the engine and gearbox

 

[1975DCS]

Wow, that seems like a small increase of power for all the effort being done! If you look into that, the 160 HP Honda CRX VTi must have been a cracking engine for the price back then... Suprised to see that there is such a big gap with S1600 engine, some of the latest spec have 247 HP! Nothin in between I suppose...

 

[mazmaz]

S1600 kit cost 110.000 €

engine run @8750 rpm

 

[1975DCS]

S1600 kit cost 110.000 €

engine run @8750 rpm

Engine at Sodemo cost 52.000 euro (according to someone who has one), can run up to 10.000 rpm and delivers over 230 bhp... That's almost 100 bhp more than a K4M RS engine! Amazing! You still need the sequential gearbox as this has the smallest rpm drop partly due to the fastest shifting gearbox.

 

[maggi200]

Wow, that seems like a small increase of power for all the effort being done! If you look into that, the 160 HP Honda CRX VTi must have been a cracking engine for the price back then... Suprised to see that there is such a big gap with S1600 engine, some of the latest spec have 247 HP! Nothin in between I suppose...

Then consider where the B16 engine went with the B16B. ~185bhp (might have been ps?) from a 1.6na back in the 90's...

 

[1975DCS]

That is indeed amazing... More as a 2.8 VR6 in that time! Kind of strange that Renault now offers a reliable 100 bhp per liter with their Clio while the Twingo needs an awful lot of work to reach that...

 

[gsidave]

Wow, that seems like a small increase of power for all the effort being done! If you look into that, the 160 HP Honda CRX VTi must have been a cracking engine for the price back then... Suprised to see that there is such a big gap with S1600 engine, some of the latest spec have 247 HP! Nothin in between I suppose...

Then consider where the B16 engine went with the B16B. ~185bhp (might have been ps?) from a 1.6na back in the 90's...

That was back in the day when cars had no cats. The old cosworth yb motor can knock a 1000 bhp out ! Don't forget how tight the eu laws are now on what comes out of the tail pipe.

I'm sure Renault could have given the twingo 200 hp then why would people bother with the Clio or megane. Each car has a limit of power before you want/need the next model.

 

[maggi200]

Is the Ek9 not '98 onwards which would have had a cat.

and the best bit about the twingo is the chassis out performs the engine and it's just great, cheap fun

 

[1975DCS]

It's all about the price I guess... With 100 bhp per liter it would have been more expensive, indeed stirring in the Clio range, but on the other hand: I like the low weight of the Twingo, I'd rather have this with a Clio engine than the Clio itself. The weight of the Clio could be nicer with the Megane engine... But for everyone's liking...

 

[gsidave]

Honda build some blinding engines. But you have to be in the mood to rev the nuts of them as the sure produce no torque.

 

[1975DCS]

The old cosworth yb motor can knock a 1000 bhp out ! Don't forget how tight the eu laws are now on what comes out of the tail pipe.

Probably and potentially, yes! But that isn't going to be reliable road car! I am involved in Rallycross very much and because I used to have a Sierra RS Cosworth I still have friends that have hugely powerful ones. But how good the engine might be, is is not just putting a big turbo on! Take Cosworth guru Julian Godfrey for example: he modifies the block with wet liners, relative high compression ratio, special inlet manifold, etc, etc. In Fast Ford he told that before the use of Nikasil liners the engine would have to be rebuild every 2 or 3 races, now they can cope an entire season, except for the manifold that gets destroyed by the ALS. But all in all, almost all Ford engines are much more easy to squeeze more power out of it. Ford is still king in that area!

 

[1975DCS]

Honda build some blinding engines. But you have to be in the mood to rev the nuts of them as the sure produce no torque.

Isn't that a bit of the same (although slightly less) for the latest Clio and Twingo RS?