Tuning standard K4M

[dino]

Hello everyone!
Don't know if this is right place to ask this question, but I will anyway. ;p

I have Megane 3 coupe with 1.6 K4M engine. As fas as i know it is base for what many of you have in your Twingos. I was wondering what parts should I change to get closer to 130 bhp? To be honest i also thought about swap, but I'm not really sure what I want to do yet.

 

[singlespeed]

If your considering a swap, look into the 172/182 or even Meg225 conversion instead as it would be much better on a cost/hp basis than chasing higher gains on the K4M. Check out Jordysports section on here

Which version of the K4M do you currently have? The RS133 has flat topped pistons (with small valve pockets) to give 11:1 where previous units have dished pistons and therefore less compression which would probably be the most costly part to replicate or improve on

 

[dino]

Thank you for reply!

Well, my research so far didn't give me answer to which version of K4M I Have. ;] Depending on sources it could be K4MR854, K4M866 or K4M858. I don't even know what are differences between these, but what I'm sure of is that it has lower compression (9.7:1 if I remember correctly). I thought that fitting camshaft from 133 with remap could give some extra power. ;P

But well, if this is how it is, then swap seems to be much better option. I was looking for engines and to be honest I havent thought about 172/182 or 225. Instead I would prefer 200 from 3rd clio or 250 from newest megane rs. But well, I'll have to wait some more with that. ;]

But now I wonder what engines would be direct fit into my car.

 

[frediiii]

one guy in germany called oliver modded a standard K4M-720 (that has 107bhp) to over 140bhp... but he went through a LOT of modifications to get there... even crafted a new intake manifold merging his K4M manifold with a bigger bore F4P 2.0 Engine inlet...

bigger throttle body of course and some custom induction using large diameter pipework, low bends and a espace V6 airbox

I'm sure it had internal work done as well and exhaust changes, but the 140bhp were done WITHOUT VVT! I think this is rather impressive.

 

[dino]

Well, it sure does look impressive Freddi, but sadly once again proves that swap is much more sensible option. If only someone had K4M S1600 spec for sale... ;D

 

[singlespeed]

Well, it sure does look impressive Freddi, but sadly once again proves that swap is much more sensible option. If only someone had K4M S1600 spec for sale... ;D

They do and the price is horiffic as its a standard K4M by name and basic crank case only

 

[dino]

*_* Well, it's far beyond my reach anyway. ;] And using S1600 on daily basis would be pretty hardcore I guess. ;p

 

[singlespeed]

I've got some cams which should finaly be getting ground this week, then heat treated... So should be avaliable before christmas :lol:

K-Tec manifold has been expected for a while.

High comp pistons and forged rods have been avaliable for a while.

Headwork would show some gains as the standard casting is ok, but far from good

 

[frediiii]

also my manifold would fit to your megane as a straight swap... it's a clio 172 manifold with k4m &megane exhaust flanges it has been crafted from the same guy I mentioned above.

 

[hutchie]

I got 150 BHP outta a non vvt k4m the old 700 series ones seems to rev better :S free flowing with boddies and your laughing, 8k limiter

 

[singlespeed]

I got 150 BHP outta a non vvt k4m the old 700 series ones seems to rev better :S free flowing with boddies and your laughing, 8k limiter

What spec is that hutchie? I hope thats with steel rods and bolts for 8k

 

[Oliver]

My limiter cuts at 7k, but I´ve my 142hp already @ 5700rpm....so why rev that high... :mrgreen:

And at least 150Nm between 2000 and nearly 6500rpm, is not so bad, too with the maximum of 183Nm @ 4700rpm. So I like the old K4M a lot, especially in car with only 935kg weight...

 

[hutchie]

I got 150 BHP outta a non vvt k4m the old 700 series ones seems to rev better :S free flowing with boddies and your laughing, 8k limiter

What spec is that hutchie? I hope thats with steel rods and bolts for 8k

Nope it ran standard bottom end for 30k then it dropped 2 valves and sliced a piston in two, somehow the rod and gudgen pin stayed inside engine, and this all happened above 7k, so the bottom ends are really strong is what im trying to say

As for reason for making it rev hard? The power curve was a straight diagonal line, why would you not want to rev an itb'd car hard, they sound epic, miss that car....

 

[Oliver]

It a funny thing with the Twingo RS engines. I guy in the german twingo-board got his KTR complete system (including also the new manifold) installed and complained a little about the power gain, because he expected more and also the trip on the dyno showed only some more horses.

https://www.twingotuningforum.de/thread-23332-post-8624280.html#pid8624280

Then I put both graphs in excel to compare it (honestly said there is also a difference in the loss curves which are here not further more taken in account and I wonder a little) and you could clearly see the effect of the exhaust system in all rpm areas.

But I did wonder much more when I added the curves of my last dyno-test. Do I have a diesel?!?

Why does the Twingo need so much more revs??

 

[benmc]

Maybe something to do with the vvt oli? That's just a random guess though! And for the guy in Germany did he get it mapped again after the full exhaust and did he get the full manifold and back 2.5" exhaust not just one part?? I'm currently in making of getting 197 inlets to fit as I e noticed that you hutchy and another guy on cliosport have all seen good gains via breathing mods! I know may be slightly different with the twingo but I am able to do it cheaply is taking more time though

 

[Oliver]

But I was always thinking vvt gives you more torque over a wider rpm-area? So here also at low rpm?

The guy in the german board is from austria, but that doesn´t matter. He wrote that he is got a remapping, but not especially for the system and that´s the problem I think. Yes he´s got the complete system, manifold, katalyst, mid-section and rear box:

I think the mod with the 197 inlet manifold is a good idea. And I´m still thinking that taking the 182 4-2-1 exhaust manifold with the sports catalyst and modify the flange to the cylinder head is more effektive than the KTR system...

 

[benmc]

Some guy called orbital tried that on te twingo and I think he found a few problems , and like I say about the vvt I was taking a random guess there bud, also to do with ktec manifold etc I wonder if there tests were done on the decatted system

 

[Oliver]

In my opinion the OEM base calibration of the vvt setting and also the cam profile itself is optimized for the high back-pressure that´s created by the OEM catalyst. For EuroV at least a 600 cell catalyst is necessary if you have a system without secondary air that heats up the catalyst quicker.

So reducing the back-pressure by a big bore exhaust system, 200 cell catalyst and manifold is nothing with good cams and remapping....that´s what I think.

 

[benmc]

Hmmmm didn't really understand that tbh bud just the way I'm reading it lol