300mm discs conversion
- Thread starter mwalsh
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After a massive for renault ATS caliper system and other brands, could only find these.
https://www.cheapbrakecalipers.co.uk/store/renault-espace-laguna-vel-brake-caliper-front-near-side-remanufactured-brake-engineering-ca2255-7701049762-8253965
As close as i can get 60mm pot caliper for a plug and play. only downside to this one is its for 26mm, but an improvement from last search of 28mm disc ones.
Question is, how much pedal play will there be with a 2mm gap =/
cant find any thicker pads too
Edit *
Just got word that there is a 60mm caliper for 24mm thickness for the ATE system, only it's used by Ford, namely in the RS2000. Getting bolt hole spacing dimensions soon so fingers crossed
https://www.cheapbrakecalipers.co.uk/store/renault-espace-laguna-vel-brake-caliper-front-near-side-remanufactured-brake-engineering-ca2255-7701049762-8253965
As close as i can get 60mm pot caliper for a plug and play. only downside to this one is its for 26mm, but an improvement from last search of 28mm disc ones.
Question is, how much pedal play will there be with a 2mm gap =/
cant find any thicker pads too
Edit *
Just got word that there is a 60mm caliper for 24mm thickness for the ATE system, only it's used by Ford, namely in the RS2000. Getting bolt hole spacing dimensions soon so fingers crossed
Personally im not selling anything, all of the stuff listed in the first page is directly from Renault them selves. Much cheaper to source parts like carriers off eBay and better quality discs from brembo etc.
So far it's costed me £250 as I had to order pads last min from Renault.
When I get a front set or larger calipers to work, will post up part numbers and any guide for it.
I've got the rear set up planned from research and can post up the numbers if any one wants to give it ago. Pretty much like the fronts, it's just longer carrier and discs change to 270mm from 240mm. The twingo's rear caliper and pads are pretty much already used on the larger scenic /megane/espace set up.
So far it's costed me £250 as I had to order pads last min from Renault.
When I get a front set or larger calipers to work, will post up part numbers and any guide for it.
I've got the rear set up planned from research and can post up the numbers if any one wants to give it ago. Pretty much like the fronts, it's just longer carrier and discs change to 270mm from 240mm. The twingo's rear caliper and pads are pretty much already used on the larger scenic /megane/espace set up.
Upon my search for better compound for the slightly larger pads ( there is none so just use DS2500 133 pads) I came across ferodo DS2500 pads for the Clio 200T.
Quick spec guide is that the 200T runs off 320mm discs with 28mm thickness. Uses a single 57mm pot caliper. What was posted on ferodo's sight that that the pad shape is the same as the twingo's with the exact same length and thickness measurements, apart from the height which is sorter....
You'd think with a larger brake disc area the pads would be larger like the scenic ones for 300mm discs. There about 3mm larger then 280mm disc pads.
155/156mm x 18mm x 55mm are the Clio measurements whilst the twingo's is 155/156mm x 18mm x 67mm...
Surely brembo must have put the wrong stats up as the part is smaller then that of the 133's...
Quick spec guide is that the 200T runs off 320mm discs with 28mm thickness. Uses a single 57mm pot caliper. What was posted on ferodo's sight that that the pad shape is the same as the twingo's with the exact same length and thickness measurements, apart from the height which is sorter....
You'd think with a larger brake disc area the pads would be larger like the scenic ones for 300mm discs. There about 3mm larger then 280mm disc pads.
155/156mm x 18mm x 55mm are the Clio measurements whilst the twingo's is 155/156mm x 18mm x 67mm...
Surely brembo must have put the wrong stats up as the part is smaller then that of the 133's...
singlespeed
Well-known member
The measurements could be accurate.
Think of it this way. If you have the same piston area and pad shape, going to a larger disc will give more torque which is all well and good if you need more torque.
Alternatively, you could reduce the pad swept area and have a similar torque(possibly a bit more) from a slightly lighter disc as the bell section doesn't weigh as much as the friction area.
Think of it this way. If you have the same piston area and pad shape, going to a larger disc will give more torque which is all well and good if you need more torque.
Alternatively, you could reduce the pad swept area and have a similar torque(possibly a bit more) from a slightly lighter disc as the bell section doesn't weigh as much as the friction area.
so in theory if 200T owners wanted more pad surface area in contact with the disc they could opt for 133 pads. would be interesting to see if any one attempts it.
some good reading
https://zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm
https://www.wcengineering.com/articles/brakes.html
some good reading
https://zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm
https://www.wcengineering.com/articles/brakes.html
singlespeed
Well-known member
If the clio pad is already using all its avaliable disc area, there would be no benefit if the 133 pads overhang the friction surface of the 200T disc. Pads overhanging the discs intended breaking area isn't a good ideamwalsh":1oj5dwlw said:
Also, would the 133 pad clash with the caliper or carrier?
Ah, that's one thing I haven't looked at is the actual rotor size. I was assuming that since the disc was 320mm it in theory should have a wider rotor :/
From what I could gather the carrier is the same shape as used by the twingo, megane, espace etc, just longer and has a wider width for thicker discs. In theory I could fit carriers for 28mm thick discs but the only problem is that they are all 5 stud pattern.
It's been an interesting learning curve for this project. Luckily my rears now need changing so will attempt the 270mm conversion soon ( if I'm allowed by the other half) lol
Any many thanks to all who has commented and helped on this. whether it's worth it or if it actually benefits the car, it's been fun
From what I could gather the carrier is the same shape as used by the twingo, megane, espace etc, just longer and has a wider width for thicker discs. In theory I could fit carriers for 28mm thick discs but the only problem is that they are all 5 stud pattern.
It's been an interesting learning curve for this project. Luckily my rears now need changing so will attempt the 270mm conversion soon
( if I'm allowed by the other half) lolAny many thanks to all who has commented and helped on this. whether it's worth it or if it actually benefits the car, it's been fun
Ahhhh the power of research. Cheers for the heads up Neil. a big help
"3) Only increasing the effective radius of the disc, the caliper piston area, the line pressure, or the coefficient of friction can increase brake torque. Increasing the pad area will decrease pad wear and improve the fade characteristics of the pads but it will not increase the brake torque."
will be switching back to DS2500 twingo pads lol. So it could be useful if twingo pads will work for clios to increase pad life or fade
more reading
https://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-system-and-upgrade-selection
"3) Only increasing the effective radius of the disc, the caliper piston area, the line pressure, or the coefficient of friction can increase brake torque. Increasing the pad area will decrease pad wear and improve the fade characteristics of the pads but it will not increase the brake torque."
will be switching back to DS2500 twingo pads lol. So it could be useful if twingo pads will work for clios to increase pad life or fade
more reading
https://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/brake-system-and-upgrade-selection
If any GT owner could send me the measurements of the distance between the the two bolt holes on their carrier/hub so i can check with the distance on the 133 carrier mounting.
Also any info on what size caliper is used on the GT model?
Would be interesting to see if more and more 133 owners move on to bigger brakes, there would be a lot of left over parts, if they could be be used as a plug and play option on the GT.
many thanks
Also any info on what size caliper is used on the GT model?
Would be interesting to see if more and more 133 owners move on to bigger brakes, there would be a lot of left over parts, if they could be be used as a plug and play option on the GT.
many thanks
oscar
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Oliver":21aa3ad2 said:I just installed 300mm Zimmermanns (470.2423.52) with ATE ceramic pads to my Mégane. It´s a nice and smooth combination. Maybe not the sportiest, but nearly no dust.
oliver, what wheels are those? i've got to admit that ... those are pretty sexy wheels!
These wheels are ATS "Sky" in 9x16 with an off-set of 30mm. They are (as far as I know) beside the AZEV Type E and Type F the only wheels in this size that fit over the 300mm brake without additional spacers. The wheels are painted in Ford graphite grey by myself.
I know that I could also have fitted 18 inch wheels to a MéganeII but I have a faible for fat sidewall tyres...
I know that I could also have fitted 18 inch wheels to a MéganeII but I have a faible for fat sidewall tyres...
Very smart set-up wishing I'd gone for Laguna discs for a slightly larger offset of the alloys on disc. What's the thickness of the megane discs? And what model/year megane? Could only see two models in my search that used 300mm discs / 24mm thickness
The disc has 24mm. It's a 2005 phase1 grand tour with the Bosch calipers. It came out of factory with 280mm discs and I did the 300mm conversion already some years ago when I have installed still the standard discs and pads.
Very nice. Think I'll switch back to the twingo's smaller pads due to getting better racing compounds.
What's the caliper pot size in the grand tour?
Been looking into megane 4stud 270mm rear. Most use the same rear pad as twingo, just finding the correct carrier for it to work
What's the caliper pot size in the grand tour?
Been looking into megane 4stud 270mm rear. Most use the same rear pad as twingo, just finding the correct carrier for it to work
It´s only 54mm. Previously I wanted also to go for the EspaceIII two-pot calipers, that are more or less equal to the 57mm one-pot ones (like Twingo RS), but then I would have also to change to a bigger master cylinder not to increase the pedal way. And honestly said, my Mégane has only the 1.6 16v engine...
For rear I think the 240mm are more than enough. In my Clio I adjusted nearly 90% of the brake balance to the front (by the brake bias valve), because I had stability problems at high speeds due to the fact, that the car is empty. (No back seats, no spare wheel, ...)
For rear I think the 240mm are more than enough. In my Clio I adjusted nearly 90% of the brake balance to the front (by the brake bias valve), because I had stability problems at high speeds due to the fact, that the car is empty. (No back seats, no spare wheel, ...)
i think it actually might be easier and cheaper to buy the R2's 2 pot rears then to source carriers, and a larger disc for a trail hoping that it'll work with the caliper and pads. min thickness rear i could find it 10mm, to the twingos 240mm/ 8mm thick ones. Not using the clips on the pads would equal it out a bit.
very rough working out is that the 300mm added 7% torque increase to braking at the front, if i changed the rear it would be (rough shot ) something around 20%... would have to have bias adjusted for that. but would stop a treat.
going to have to work out the r2 rear pots, if it could equal the same torque increase as the larger front discs i'd be happy with that.
on a dark dark side not i did find 312mm discs, carrier and 60mm single pot... haha
also on the look out for a cheap Ford ATE single 60mm pot for the fronts
very rough working out is that the 300mm added 7% torque increase to braking at the front, if i changed the rear it would be (rough shot ) something around 20%... would have to have bias adjusted for that. but would stop a treat.
going to have to work out the r2 rear pots, if it could equal the same torque increase as the larger front discs i'd be happy with that.
on a dark dark side not i did find 312mm discs, carrier and 60mm single pot... haha
also on the look out for a cheap Ford ATE single 60mm pot for the fronts
O.K. the R2´s might be a better choice but if they are cheaper I doubt.
I speak of those:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Espace-MK3-Passengers-Side-Front-Brake-Caliper-6284-2-/171314794189
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Renault-Espace-V6-Right-Hand-Front-Caliper-/330710550040
This guy installed them in his Clio 172 but he combined them with the 280mm standard discs and not the 300mm ones.
https://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?664123-Upgrade-to-Espace-(2-Pot)-Calipers&p=9050272&viewfull=1#post9050272
Problem with these calipers: No real racing compound availibe.
Regarding brake bias, that´s an interesting article: https://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/white-paper---brake-bias-and-performance-why-brake-balance-matters
I speak of those:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Espace-MK3-Passengers-Side-Front-Brake-Caliper-6284-2-/171314794189
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Renault-Espace-V6-Right-Hand-Front-Caliper-/330710550040
This guy installed them in his Clio 172 but he combined them with the 280mm standard discs and not the 300mm ones.
https://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?664123-Upgrade-to-Espace-(2-Pot)-Calipers&p=9050272&viewfull=1#post9050272
Problem with these calipers: No real racing compound availibe.
Regarding brake bias, that´s an interesting article: https://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/white-paper---brake-bias-and-performance-why-brake-balance-matters