Vague, Light steering... Any ideas?!

[scottmainwaring01]

Hello,
Had my twingo gt a few months now and I'm wondering if anyone else gets wheel spin easily? It cannot seem to put the power down and when accelerating hard and turning the steering gently from side to side there is a weird resistance feel, often spinning one wheel.

I'm by no means a boy racer, it is mainly pulling off at junctions and ever since I found the problem I've been experimenting on clear roads.

When the car is stationary and engine is turned off there is no play in the steering, but a sort of "light" area when turning side to side, I use the imagery of a spirit level, the bubble is where the steering is light, then go further and it is like any other car.

My car also seems to be understeering a bit too, going from a lowered Arosa to this has made me scared of opening the taps and having fun every now and then because it's road handling isn't brilliant.

Any advice that anyone can give would be muchly appreciated?
Cheers

 

[oscar]

sounds more like your tyres are just ditch finders if i'm being to the point mate? i know on my winter tyres my GT spins the wheels when it's wet taking of briskly in first gear. the steering is progressive power steering so is very twitchy at slower speeds and at motorway speeds power steering will be non existent. are you on a standard suspension set up currently? with the 4x4 level of arch gap, springs and damper rate the gt's factory set up feels like a boat. easily fixed with some coilovers and good rubber to bring out the go kart feel. the weird feeling you're refering to is down to the castor geometry which governs the self centring action of the wheel (when you let the wheel go, it will always self centre) your gt's fine mate don't worry lol

 

[scottmainwaring01]

Haha I'm on the standard suspension setup at the minute, looking into a set of fixed apex springs and shocks, 30mm lower. Wanting to get hubcentric 20mm spacers all round too. Thought I'd have to get a new rack or something so I was retaining my wishful thinking of modifying until after Christmas haha.

Yea I have some winter tyres at the minute but because I'm an apprentice I don't have the cash to go and buy a new set every half a year so they are Part Worns and I'm lead to believe that the tread isn't worn evenly which could be throwing a spanner in the works.

Glad to know that it's alright, first car I've had with EPAS and I like the theory of it all, saves fuel and what not, but it feel is soooo light. I think with a new set of treads on it should be okay by the sounds of it?

 

[LC]

Mine has the same light steering feel it's light when driving slow I admit but when you drive faster it has a lot more feel might just be the way they set it up in the cars there's no play in mine either tbh it's going to be hard to turn and put down power in a FWD car a set of directional tyres will help that

 

[waitey]

Get your tracking checked, probably knocked out of alignment

 

[oscar]

waitey toe in / toe out wouldn't be the problem if scott is worried about excessively light steering although it would need to be done as part of the remedy. take the tyre wear into consideration and the light steering, this would point to camber / castor especially with the tyre wear or incorrect tyre pressures, says me who can never be bothered to inflate mines haha. what could cause your camber or castor to be out could be something as simple as a mechanic not putting the strut mount in the correct way around (on a gt, the top mount sits at an offset axis to the chassis for negative castor) scott do you have any pictures of the tyre wear, i should be able to at least tell you exactly what the problem is if i can see the wear patterns??

 

[scottmainwaring01]

The tyres are part Worns and the bloke who did them didn't ask me if I thought they were okay, so after inspecting them yesterday I notices the inner edge is more worn than the outer... Bearing In kind that I only got them done on Saturday... I don't think my car would have made them wear that quick, if it is I'd be scared.

I went to quik fit for their hunter laser allignment check and the wheels were alright, he said that the right front was a little out and rear camber was about a degree out on the left but he said it shouldn't have much impact, and seeing that it would be £40ish for no difference allegedly I thought stuff it haha,

Cheers for the advice though guys

 

[scottmainwaring01]

Sorry about the spelling, bloody auto correct

 

[Martin_172]

ARB drop link snapped would cause this along with budget tyres

 

[oscar]

fair point martin, have you noticed any abnormal roll when cornering in the sense that you're getting a lot more body roll turning left than you are turning right vice a versa? the strange thing is that an anti roll bar gives you less mechanical grip than a car without one, so you might not notice it. i also just re read what you said the first instance about understeer, this is definately down to the tyre compound you've went with. i'm personally not into buying expensive tyres either. the main thing is that you're still getting used to it, if you had good rubber and coilovers understeer would be a thing of the past and the EPAS system comes into it's own on the twisties. if you were closer i'd have taken a look at it for you for nothing, but you're a treck away sir :/

 

[scottmainwaring01]

I will check the drop links tonight... Sometimes the car feels very understeer prone, and others it's awesome and I feel confident enough that it'll grip... Very weird happenings, but I am hoping to change the tyres again this weekend and I hope to inspect the tyres before hand.

Cheers

 

[oscar]

keep us updated, always here to help whenever we can mate. hope you've been enjoying the little turbo nonetheless !

 

[scottmainwaring01]

The turbo is awesome, I haven't got an after market blow off valve on it but I made a blanking plug at work and it sounds funny! yea I'll have a look later, cheers for the help everyone

 

[scottmainwaring01]

Took a few pictures:






I don't seem to have Drop links? The ARB Bushes are a bit cracked, do you think they are contributing to the weird steering?

 

[singlespeed]

Winter tyres. Which ones and, is it a front pair only or a full set?
Are they the same size front/rear? This could affect the rake angle and front castor which adds weight and self centering force to the steering.

Toe angle is the only one that's readily adjustable on a standard car. It can make a difference to the tyre wear as too much/or little and the tyres will be skidding sideways as you drive forwards. Toe in/neutral will give a wooly feel to the steering responds. Toe out (10minutes total for the two wheels) will give better feel and too much (20minutes total) starts to feel nervous and becomes more prone to tramlining.

 

[scottmainwaring01]

They are fulda Momento... German tyres, good reviews to be honest, I just have them on the fronts and on the rears I have auto grip tyres. They used to be on the fronts... Dreadful.

 

[LC]

They are fulda Momento... German tyres, good reviews to be honest, I just have them on the fronts and on the rears I have auto grip tyres. They used to be on the fronts... Dreadful.

I have autogrip tyres on the front of mine awful too, up and down the motorway most the time though for winter can't argue too much but I don't trust them in any weather

 

[scottmainwaring01]

Getting the wheels aligned properly tomorrow... I'll give an update after, if it's not the alignment I don't really know what to look for, I tightened up the nuts for the drop links to clamp down the ARB more and it felt a little more responsive today with more resistance but the problem is still there.

 

[waitey]

Could be **** tyres, when I changed from nankangs ditch finders to falkens it was a massive difference as it stuck to the road and felt more solid to drive and didn't under steer everywhere

 

[scottmainwaring01]

Yea I've had the wheels aligned, they were both toe in. Enough to make the steering light. But the tyres won't be making things any better either